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Talk:Earth Release: Earth-Style Wall
Info change There's no such thing as simultaneous use of different hand seals, can someone correct them? I don't know in which chapter Sandaime used it in the battle against Orochimaru. Omnibender - Talk 23:20, 12 October 2008 (UTC) 'Also, for a Kage-class shinobi it is possible to create a vast volume of earth' How do we not know that a vast volume is not made all the time? Granted the more chakra used the more will probably be created, but how do we know that a large amount is a not a prerequisite? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 20:45, June 30, 2010 (UTC) :That sentence was almost literally taken from my translation of this technique's databook article. --ShounenSuki (talk | ) 21:59, June 30, 2010 (UTC) ::Thanks for the clarification. Do you have a link to that? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 22:03, June 30, 2010 (UTC) :::Links to all my translations and such are on my user page. --ShounenSuki (talk | ) 22:15, June 30, 2010 (UTC) ::::Thanks. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 22:35, June 30, 2010 (UTC) Pain's usage Is this not just pure speculation? For as far as I can see its a direct result of his Chibaku Tensai, he did not use seperate handseals nor did he call out its name to be precise. Keibatsu (talk) 16:36, July 4, 2010 (UTC) :Talk:Nagato#Earth Style Release:earth style wall and nagato page still need editing. ''~SnapperT '' 18:19, July 4, 2010 (UTC) Name Is it a literal translation? In other occasions "doryū" is translated as "earth flow".--LeafShinobi (talk) 20:41, January 5, 2011 (UTC) :I've asked ShounenSuki this is the past, the 流 kanji can mean both "flow" and "style", among other things, so the translation depends pretty much on the context. Like fall. Depending on the context, it can mean either autumn or literally falling down. Omnibender - Talk - 20:45, January 5, 2011 (UTC) ::Thanks.--LeafShinobi (talk) 20:49, January 5, 2011 (UTC) Omoi That one kumo shinobi who was using the technique on page 14 looks a lot like Omoi. What do you think? Enough to list him as a user or not? (talk) 10:37, May 15, 2013 (UTC) :Every named member of the alliance should be listed since she linked to all of them--Elveonora (talk) 10:44, May 15, 2013 (UTC) ::Oh lord, that would be...Shouldn't we list just all who were seen using it for a start? At least Sakura didn't use it since she was healing Naruto at that time (talk) 10:46, May 15, 2013 (UTC) ::We should only list those who are known for being able to use it, in regards to the list of users (basically keeping it as is). As for the article itself, it's more than fine to just mention something alluding to the fact nearly every Shinobi Alliance member can use it. And as for Omoi, there's no way to know who it is without seeing the face, so no.-- (talk) 10:59, May 15, 2013 (UTC) :: I'll have to agree with keeping the list as is and simply put in the fact that everyone in shinobi alliance now knows the jutsu.--JUP173R (talk) 11:04, May 15, 2013 (UTC) :::Fist of all, let me say that Kishimoto pulled a bullshit with this one, which makes Naruto's Wind Training totally useless. As for Omoi, how about we wait for at least several days before adding huh?--Omojuze (talk) 11:22, May 15, 2013 (UTC) ::::It didn't, you still confuse 3 things. Ability to do something, knowledge how to do something and skill to successfully do something. Everyone has ability to do Doton or all five natures for that matter, they were taught the knowledge through Ino's telepathy from Kitsuchi and apparently all or most of them are skilled enough to pull out a basic Doton technique. For the topic, you are still missing the fact that there are still many named/known members of the alliance, so no putting it to their infobox/abilities section would be weird. I agree we should list only those who we saw not being occupied otherwise, like not Sakura because she was healing Naruto and she possibly doesn't have skill to do it, but what about people like Hinata Hyuga, Kiba Inuzuka, Kankuro, Hohato Hyuga, Ittan, Kiri, Omoi, Sai, Tango, Zaji, Shizune, C, Darui, Kotetsu Hagane, Hiashi Hyuga, Izumo Kamiziki, Tenten, Karui, Might Guy, Ensui Nara, Temari, Shino Aburame? If we list them or not, we assume either way they are/aren't skilled to do it--Elveonora (talk) 12:26, May 15, 2013 (UTC) :::::Regarding the names you listed, all of them are generally skilled in ninjutsu, as any shinobi is, so it wouldn't be surprising many of them, if not all, did. The only one we can assume without a doubt cannot would be Rock Lee. But we also didn't see the people listed. The only (new) people I remember seeing are Ino, Chouji, and Shikamaru. As for Sakura, she could, I would imagine, given her training, but that's irrelevant per the topic. I still stand by keeping the list as is and MAYBE making a reference in the article itself (not sold on it, myself).-- (talk) 12:41, May 15, 2013 (UTC) ::::::What about listing earth style wall as Shinobi Alliance jutsu in general? That would do--Elveonora (talk) 12:56, May 15, 2013 (UTC) :::::::Yes we should add it to the shinobi alliance jutsu list --ROOT 根 (talk) 16:01, May 15, 2013 (UTC) I thought it was already added?Norleon (talk) 16:03, May 15, 2013 (UTC) :Omoi isn't user, because Kumo shinobi hasn't sword at his back and Omoi has. (talk) 03:11, May 16, 2013 (UTC) ::YOu're right, he has no sword on his back, so it can't be him. Somebody who has an account needs to remove the earth release from his infobox. (talk) 09:50, May 16, 2013 (UTC) Regarding who should or should not be listed as having used the earth barrier, please see my comment in the chapter's talk page. There's no point in repeating myself here. Omnibender - Talk - 15:35, May 16, 2013 (UTC) not the same technique/s The hand seals used by one group of folks in 630 are: Ram, Tiger, Dog, Serpent. By the other group, it was: Ram, Serpent, Dog, Serpent. So not only what they used isn't this technique, but they used 2 different techniques--Elveonora (talk) 17:30, May 16, 2013 (UTC) There might also be a possibility that what Kitsuchi and other Iwa nin used was this technique, since it wouldn't be the only case when a technique can be awoken with more than one sequence of hand signs. For example Clone Technique and Chidori or at least in the anime anyway... any manga example of this?--Elveonora (talk) 18:44, May 16, 2013 (UTC) Well we can assume a few things. The first is that the Iwa-nin will use whatever is their strongest. Secondly is that we cannot rely on the pictures given the arrangement to tell us what all the seals were or the order of them. The reason for #2 is #1. There's at least 1, potentially 2, Iwa-nin in the shot. I'd say there's (as main characters in the shots) 3 Konoha, 2 Iwa, 2 Kumo, 1 Kiri, and 1 Suna (based on the flak jackets). That may leave us with 2 seals out of the picture all together, but this is speculative. We also cannot count on the fact that any of the other shinobi weren't familiar with Doton. If you also look at the shot of the Kiri-nin, you'll see people doing seals that are completely different from the principle character of that shot. There's simply no way to know what the seals Kitsuchi taught them are, or the order. And by that fact, we don't know all of the techniques involved, either. -- (talk) 19:00, May 16, 2013 (UTC) :The reason why some in the same shot are doing a different seal from the next person to them is because not all of them began at the same time. Manga is read from right to left and top picture has preference before the bottom one. Thus the seals indeed are: ram, tiger, dog, serpent and ram, serpent, dog, serpent. Either they all are doing the same thing and it's possible in two ways, or some of them can be assumed to have already had either affinity or training Doton and are doing their own version of wall--Elveonora (talk) 19:11, May 16, 2013 (UTC) ::I am quite well aware of how manga is to be read, considering I read them often, lol. But that panel isn't made to be read like that, and should be evident by the fact of how it is set up. It is showing Ino giving the ifno about seals about. Not to mention there's too many people, some of which are Iwa-nin, too many seals, and people in the same area as those in the shots doing different seals; like I said, look at the Kiri-nin and the person (Konoha-nin to her left) beside her. And no, not all would potentially begin at the same time, or are as fast at seals. But that doesn't exclude the fact that you cannot base any seals for any technique by what we see because of all the factors -- it's chaotic. The seals you list are merely seals you see in no particular order, and it may be for different techniques all together. Every seal you listed may be a different technique. So while I said above it's about Ino giving info out, it's all instant to everyone, so we cannot assume, yet again, that the seals are going in order from right to left, or any other order. Its just showing a lot of different people in different areas doing different seals. Even if we go top to bottom with it, there's different seals being used in the same area as the Kiri-nin and others. The only things that are "indeed" are we see some (potentially incomplete) seals, but not the order, or the technique. -- (talk) 19:28, May 16, 2013 (UTC) ::It's the same set of seals, the Kiri-nin is using tiger seal though I'm not too sure the order is to be followed because it could easily be a montage of persons doing the technique simultaneously or step by step. I thought this at first because the wall was supposed to be "simple" and what have view but this is a B-ranked technique. I also thought we should've done a basic technique like the Water Release: Water Bullet Technique, but because of the seals, I thought it better to just merge the info.--Cerez365™ (talk) 19:19, May 16, 2013 (UTC) :::It's the same set, but as I mention above in the first post, there's two Iwa-nin, the Kiri-nin is doing something different at the same level as the Konoha-nin to her left, and compared to the Suna-nin to her right across the page, blah blah blah. So yes, same set, but we can't be sure of the order, technique, or anything else (even including that they may not be all the seals or same techniques considering the Iwa-nin)-- (talk) 19:28, May 16, 2013 (UTC) ::::I do believe it's just a montage of seals. I don't think it was to be taken literally.--Cerez365™ (talk) 19:34, May 16, 2013 (UTC) :::::@Anon, Not all Iwa nin are automatically Doton masters, just it's more common in there, you know. So figure it's likely for an Iwa Jounin not to know Doton but Raiton and Suiton--Elveonora (talk) 19:34, May 16, 2013 (UTC) :::::@Cerez -- That's my point, though. All we see are people using seals given to them by Ino, nothing more. @Elv -- I never stated they were, hence my choice of words when talking about it. I do wish you'd stop putting things in my mouth when I take far too long to elaborate and choose words carefully.-- (talk) 19:45, May 16, 2013 (UTC)